Guthrie tackle was clear evidence Toon players are feeling the strain
As much as sympathy must go out to broken leg victim Craig Fagan - Danny Guthrie will still need some consoling from within the shattered Newcastle United camp after learning the Hull City player's season in the big time has been decimated.
Make no mistake nobody can condone Guthrie's actions, but it doesn't mean that people shouldn't understand why it happened.
Clearly a young player who had ran his socks off for the cause amidst a difficult backdrop lost the plot in the closing stages before lashing out at Fagan.
At the time nobody thought Fagan had broken his leg and regardless of what people say down in Hull, it was far from a horror tackle.
It was dirty and it was bad and it was late, but not horrific - and no matter what anyone says, you have to doubt that it was in Guthrie's mind when he set off he was intending to unleash a leg breaker.
The red mist simply descended on Guthrie and he lost the plot all together.
Indeed when an introvert figure like Guthrie loses it, it clearly highlights that all is far from well within the Toon camp after Keegan's departure - which is deeply worrying considering there is a long season ahead.
And while Fagan has everybody's sympathy, Guthrie's challenge wasn't too unlike Fagan's attempts to chop down Michael Owen earlier in the game in the centre circle.
Owen was clearly livid with Fagan's tackle from behind in which there was no intent to win the ball.
And Fagan was clearly mouthing "calm down" on TV monitors a number for times to the usually cool and calm skipper in an obvious attempt to rattle Owen on what was already a testing day.
Guthrie - who now faces a lengthy ban - has since apologised for the tackle but at a time when the pressure at Newcastle is clearly showing on the players, the worrying factor is that there is a lack of leadership at the club and lack of a key figure to put an arm around the player.
Given that Guthrie was the only player that Keegan signed without the assistance of Dennis Wise and Co, it was perhaps somewhat ironic that the player fell into the frustration trap and has ended up attracting a wave of negative publicity - which was the last thing anybody at United wanted.
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Lee Ryder - Proudly born and bred on Tyneside, the Chronicle's chief sports writer has followed the fortunes of the club over the last three decades as a Toon fan and football writer.
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Alas I strongly disagree with the approach and tone of your contribution today.
I watched the replay of the incident in which Guthrie appears to have gone for the Hull player twice, making no attempt to play the ball and which in anyone's judgement is physical abuse and no different from the reported behaviour of Joey Barton, albeit this is the first reported occasion of such violence by the player. The Denise Wise mould whose reputation was something of thug on the field, was it not?)
Two wrongs do not make a right and all such behaviour should be punished as stongoy as possible by the FA, the managing clubs and in appropriate cases, by the courts.
Saying sorry in a genuine way helps, but is only the first step towards rehabiliation.
Football has a lot to learn from the British Cycling Team which also has the right kind of psychological help within the team support structure.
no matter what what has gone on there was no excuse for what he did, where light on numbers as it is now he has selfishly got himself banned just when we need as many players available for selection.
this squad will be relegated, we simply have not got enough too survive.
midfield no pace or creativity at all (apart from jonas) defence still very suspect, and up front michael has no support what so ever.
i think the likes of stoke , wba, will look forward to playing us, thinking they have every chance of getting 3pts from us.
this has been coming for a few years now and i just happen to think this will be the season we will not escape the drop.
had kev been allowed to bring the players he wanted, we would never have been in this postion, that is for sure.
the statement ashley put out about the debt he did not know somehow when buying the club, well he needs to be firing his legal team for not uncovering this before he bought the club.
yet he forces his biggest asset to walk away from the club.
he bought this club to make a quick profit as he has always done in his buisness life.
i.e buying shares in adidas then selling a few months later for a huge profit.
but this one has blown up in his face big time.
even more so if we get relegated.
mike ashley, now you have done what i think the majority of nufc fans wanted including myself. if this is going to be a long drawn out sale of the club does it realy matter who is placed at the so called director of football now. let dennis wise know that he is no longer required at nufc or even tyneside for that matter, please understand if this little man had not been placed in this position we would NOT! be in this position now. plead with kevin to come back and he will give stability confedence and most importantly points. even if it is to help yourself get what ever the price you want im sure this would bring a lot of reliefe for the players,fans and (still) your club and will go a long way with us fans to remember you for what you have tried to do at nufc. eric E/B.
The dodgey penalty was the writing on the wall for that game as Hull's diving took precedence over football. Their red and white sand dancing manager milked the emotions of the GEORDIE supporters in a gleeful manner, which he knew would enrage both fans and platers. Why? he reckons he took a kicking from us as a kid, following sunderland. I reckon half the referees that take charge of our games took a kicking here as well. Speaking of kicking, Guthrie's foul was nowhere near as vicious as Roy Keane's intentional leg-breaking/career-ending assault on that blonde Scandinavian Leeds player some years back. No worse than the tackle from behind on Owen, whose fragility may have resulted in another lengthy lay-off. I'm so tired of this negativity and virtual hatred toward us nationally. My stomache is in a constant churn. Like when you're standing outside the headmaster's office for the cane, or waiting to go to court, I'd imagine. Please let me wake up in '92, when my life was peachy.
'Nobody can condone Guthrie's actions,' but that's all this piece does. He's naive, probably never meant for immediate first team duty and is clearly out of his depth. Because of his vicious stupidity, he'll miss matches and another player is out for even longer. The fact that Fagan's behaviour had gone largely unchecked should not be an issue. Guthrie needs to grow up or get out of the game.
Whilst not condoning a broken leg tackle, Fagan may have contributed to his downfall with, in addition to the challenge on Owen, a number of times he had a kick at defenders as they cleared the ball, unseen by the officials. Obviously his orange skinned manager didn't see that judging from his righteous outrage.
It was dirty and it was bad and it was late, AND horrific. I'm a fan but that was totally out of order and he should get banned for more than 3 games.
You cant use goading as an excuse.
guthrie's challenge was crazy but you're right it summed up the club's current state perfectly...still think guthrie and butt in midfield lacks drive and creativity.
I have to disagree with some of the points made here. Guthrie's tackle was inexcusable - no question at all. Yes he was frustrated, yes he was angry, blah blah. But at the end of the day he has gone into the lad with the intention of hurting him and has broken his leg. Anyone who has played football at any level knows that lashing out like that can have devastating results. I can just imagine the outcry if it had been a Newcastle player.
Looking for excuses and trying to find explanations (too young, competetive....) for me that sort of slant just feeds into the cockney based 'anti newcastle' press. Which seems to be hurtling up the A1.
What really annoyed me was Guthrie being clapped off. Which idiots actually did this. I don't agree with booing players off (Ameobi is pants but booing him off is totally pointless) but don't clap him off. Our now threadbare squad is down yet another first team player.
Ryder's reply: I think in Guthrie's case he will learn from this, he hasn't done it before and I don't think he'll do it again in a hurry. Yes, he was angry but he has channeled his emotion in the wrong way. He showed he was bothered that the team were losing but went the wrong way about trying to do something about it.
I have to go back to Man City 3-0 Newcastle in 2006 under Souness in his last game.
Albert Luque left the field laughing and joking, I'd take a Guthrie character every time over that sort of attitude. If you take away the passion and hunger of a player, what are you left with?
Perhaps the only person who got it right out of this sad episode was Andre Marriner.
I have to disagree with some of the points made here. Guthrie's tackle was inexcusable - no question at all. Yes he was frustrated, yes he was angry, blah blah. But at the end of the day he has gone into the lad with the intention of hurting him and has broken his leg. Anyone who has played football at any level knows that lashing out like that can have devastating results. I can just imagine the outcry if it had been a Newcastle player.
Looking for excuses and trying to find explanations (too young, competetive....) for me that sort of slant just feeds into the cockney based 'anti newcastle' press. Which seems to be hurtling up the A1.
What really annoyed me was Guthrie being clapped off. Which idiots actually did this. I don't agree with booing players off (Ameobi is pants but booing him off is totally pointless) but don't clap him off. Our now threadbare squad is down yet another first team player.
He's still young and I hope he learns form this, but let's not kid ourselves it was awful and inexcusable...
I agree with what u said about Guthrie, He just has to cop his punishment on the chin and get on with it. Hopefully by the time he can play again this mess the club is in will be sorted. Two questions why dosent MA bring back KK giving him full control & get rid of the 3 Stooges. This would be beneficial to bothe parties, MA has a mannager who can get the team together again increesing his chances of selling the club. He will have nothing to lose by doing this. If KK is to manage the club in the near future why dosent he come to some sort of agreement now, the longer he leaves it the harder it will be to get the team back into some sort of order and build confidence back up. It would be the wisest thing to do if MA is selling and KK really wants to mannage this club. I doubt this will hapen i wish it would but makes businnes sence.
It was a terrible tackle, as bad as any I have seen in all my years of watching football. I hope they suspend him for the period Fagan is out with his injury.
Having saw the tackle on sky sports, it was a horrible tackle. But you are right in sayin nobody knew he had broke his leg, as the player himself got up and tried to "get at" Guthrie. The frustration of such a hard working player is quite understandable, no doubt the "gods" at FA headquarters will stick there oar in over ruling there own rules after the ref has dealt with it, leaving us another man down.
Lee there seems to be something wrong with your own thinking and perhaps you are in the red mist along with Guthrie. For a rare change there were a lot of appropriate refereeing decisions made last weekend. Whether it was John Terry or Guthrie the sending off was appropriate, and it is time that more than token suspensions result. Guthrie will deserve whatever is handed out.
Otherwise I'm glad that you seem at last to realise that there are very deep and long standing problems with Toon. However no solution is in sight because it is a chicken and egg situation. Ashley cannot find a buyer until he has a manager who is sorting things out. At the same time nobody (decent that is) will want to come!
"He channeled his emotion in the wrong way"? He's supposed to be a professional footballer and he was found wanting. He isn't up to the job - yet - and he's certainly not up to doing Nicky Butt's job when he doesn't show.
Excusing this is like excusing the thuggish behaviour of Smith and Bowyer at Leeds, Barton at Man City or that thug Dennis Wise at Chelsea etc.
It's excusing this kind of behaviour that gets us a bad name- particularly at times like this. That's not we're about.
Hi Lee,
I must admit i saw the tackle and after reading you piece on your thoughts, i agree that the club is in complete turmoil and there are no figures to help the players in this trying time's but mate he went for him twice and you can kind of understand the frustration of the situation but he should only receive what he received and that is a 3 match ban.
Anymore is way over the top, but as other people have mentioned can you imagine if Joey had tackled that guy and he would of been banned for the season.....
The FA will now add another 2 games on or 3 and that is even worse but the referee has to take in what he saw and that is a red card offence and 4 games is enough in my book.
I just hope we have the middle east takeover and KK or someone else that is good take over and we can get back to winning games.
God willing.
Andrew
Guthrie's tackle was out of frustration.
He'll no doubt get a lengthy ban and quite right.
Ashley has to do what he should have done last week.
Reward Wise & LLambias for their terrible management skills with P45's.
Bring Keegan back.
Stabilise the situation.
Then look for buyers.
He'll be very lucky to find anyone who'll buy a manager-less team, with disenfranchised fans, who are not playing well.
I forgot to mention that Nicky Butt had a stinker on Saturday, in fact most days since he arrived. His passing should be much more accurate for his experience in the game. Was he that bad at Man.U.? He tends to break up any and most potentially good moves forward with lack of vision or accuracy. Moan for today, sixth time lucky on catchpa? why do you need this Lee? please tell.
£481 million for NUFC ? Who is M.I.Cashley anyway ?
Not a comment
Lee the Captcha isn't working.
The letters aren't too hard to read yet get rejected time and time again.
If you moderate anyway whats the point?
'And Fagan was clearly mouthing "calm down" on TV monitors a number for times to the usually cool and calm skipper in an obvious attempt to rattle Owen on what was already a testing day.'
Oh well then, that makes everything ok. Unbelieveable - never have I had the misfortune to witness such gutless journalism. Every single professional footballer has given verbal at some point in their career, indeed, almost every single sportsperson will have done. Using this logic I'll expect to see Kevin Pietersen take a swipe at the wicket keeper when the sledging starts during the forthcoming Ashes series.
One point I have to agree with however is that it was 'far from a tackle'. You're correct - tackle has no relevance to this incident whatsoever as there was simply no attempt to win the ball. It was assault.
I find it very difficult to make excuses for violent behaviour, and lack of self control but it does happen. What pressure is Guthrie actually under, he gets paid what would be to most people a huge wage, his work is what most people do for fun he is young and inexperienced and he lost his temper. That is football, football is a passionate game and passion brings out either the very best in you or the very worst. It is a heat of the moment thing Zidane for example and it happens regularly. That doesn't make it right or give rise to the need for an excuse, but pressure I just doen't think so. Ashley is responsible for many of Utd's woes but this was down to Guthrie losing his rag.
Not Horrific?
Come on Lee - take the blinkers off. He had two out and out swipes at the man-it was a shocker.
Imagine that same assault was on Owen, horrific would be the least of the words used.
These are 'uncertain' times no doubt, but please Lee retain some sort of objectivity.
No excuses. He was wrong. The FA are entitled to look at anything else the referee may have missed during the game, but if as I hear, the FA are taking no further action because the referee sent Guthrie off at the time, it looks like we'll see more players get away with losing their cool this season. The perpetrator will get a three match ban, and the victim be out for months. Where's the FA's logic in allowing that?
its all wel n good saying that he shouldnt have done it but if you were in his position i bet every single 1 of you who cared about the club would do it. i would do it every time some prat ran 2 the corner and waste time i would kick em to let them na not to do it again. i mean all the fans want is players who give 120% now when they do you want them to be given more then the required ban.
No I stick to it Andy. It was not a horror challenge in my opinion, it wasn't anything like Ben Thatcher's disgusting challenging on Pedro Mendes.
It wasn't a coward's challenge when Fagan was lying on the deck and he didn't take off to launch two feet on to the player. There have been much worse and the player's good previous record should be considered.
Not many people will agree with you on that angle Lee, your out of order!
That Kick, you cant even call it a tackle, was a disgrace! it looks like newcastle have signed another idiot and we have had enough of them over the years. Its no wonder the southern jouranlists are having a go with comments like that from you local reporters.
I'm a loyal toon fan but surely no-one can condone that.....
Ryder's reply: It states quite clearly that I wasn't condoning the tackle, shouldn't the southern journalists be focusing on covering Tottenham's current position at the bottom of the table though?