Jimenez departure will give Kevin Keegan something to think about
I wonder what Kevin Keegan is thinking today.
One of the reasons he left St James's Park has now followed suit and quit the club in the shape of Tony Jimenez, United's vice-president (player recruitment).
Jimenez worked closely with director of football Dennis Wise and Keegan's lack of control over transfers was the key reason he quit the club.
It is understood that the only player that Keegan signed without any major input was Danny Guthrie from Liverppol.
The rest, Jonas Gutierrez, Sebastien Bassong, Fabricio Coloccini, Ignacio Gonzalez and Xisco are all believed to be the work of Wise and Jimenez.
From the little we've saw from Jonas, it is clear that Newcastle have made a very good signing who has been badly missed since he was injured on international duty.
Bassong has also impressed during a bad spell for the team but the jury is out for some fans on Coloccini.
And Gonzalez and Xisco have yet to set the world on fire despite a debut goal for the Spaniard and the South American's early injury problems.
We can only wonder what would have been the case had Keegan been in charge.
There was talk that Keegan had tried to sign Frank Lampard, Thierry Henry and David Beckham.
Therefore it makes you wonder had KK had full charge of summer transfers this summer what sort of dream team, Newcastle United could have put together.
Dream being the key word with the debate of whether building dream teams these days is realistic
One thing that was notable from Keegan's short stint in charge this year was how his thoughts on where Newcastle could finish in the Premier League this season quickly changed after Jimenez and Wise jumped on board.
Keegan spoke of challenging the top four and that only the current top four would have you believe that nobody else could break in.
But that quickly changed when he knew what the score was going to be with transfers.
And a series of disputes over the summer were obvious as slow progress in the transfer window ploughed on.
KK refused to let his opinions known on transfers as Flybe named a plane after him at a time when other clubs were starting to build up their squad.
His mentor in the game Arthur Cox left the club not long after the pre-season games had started.
Something was seriously wrong.
And as much as you tried to cling to the hope Newcastle could make a good start to the season, all wasn't as it seemed despite a point at Old Trafford and a 1-0 win over Bolton.
Before the Arsenal game, the rumours started to filter through.
United were stuffed 3-0 and the transfer situation wasn't looking good either.
There was major unrest in the camp. Keegan's ideas in the transfer market had not matched the Toon budget all summer.
And as the transfer deadline ticked towards closure on September 1, the frustration boiled over again.
James Milner was sold to Aston Villa for £12million on August 29 and a failed move for Bastian Schweinsteiger lit the fuse for the mother and father of all Tyne bombs.
Nacho Gonzalez and Xisco were rushed through the door on deadline day but before they even had time to settle in, Keegan was gone.
All of it stemming from the Keegan relationship with Wise and Jimenez.
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Lee Ryder - Proudly born and bred on Tyneside, has followed the fortunes of the club over the last three decades as a Toon fan and football writer.
Personally, I reckon Jimenez did alright - some of the signings are very good players. I also don't think Keegan is the answer - we need to be thinking of bringing a young, enthusiastic man in, who is free from baggage (and this doesn't mean Sir Al!). We're too narrow-minded and don't see the bigger footballing picture alot of the time at NUFC. An old guy on Century the other night got it spot on. He's seen it all since the 30s, and said until we (the fans) realise where we are, what we are and who we are, in football, we'll never move on and start addressing the problems and misplaced attitudes and ideas that are rife among us. Alot of soul searching needs to be done. PS - please, don't let us be as bad as Ashley's Spurs mates!!!!
Those rumours about KK wanting Lampard, Beckham, etc. don't deserve mention in an article like this - they have no backing in truth at all, and bear all the hallmarks of something put out by the other side to give the press a stick to hit him with.
And while I agree that Jimenez's signings have looked good, if they don't match what the manager wants according to his game plan, it's all for nowt.
The manager decides the strategy and playing style, and builds a squad to deliver it. If a club has to pay people to buy players, they must answer to the manager, not the other way around.
History backs this up: plenty of good examples of it not working, and a couple of shaky ones where it could be argued that it does... despite a revolving door on the manager's office.
Also, with the likes of Fergson, Wenger, and Sir Bobby all openly against the DOF structure, who's defending it? A few hacks and has-beens wanting column-inches to boost their careers.
So - well done Jimenez for fulfilling your defined role well; I genuinely think you're good at finding good (Spanish-speaking) players. Shame your ex-boss wouldn't know a productive structure at a football club from a pork pie.
I cant believe you actually thought that Keegan was contemplating signing Lampard et al, tell me you are joking (as Keegan was)
It says there was talk, it doesn't I believe it. But there is no doubt that Keegan wanted senior stars with quality at the club.
Halleluya - someone (Davey) talking sense at last.
Keegan is not the answer. "The Messiah? He's not the Messiah - He's just a very naughty boy!"
We all knew he would walk out at some time - it was just a matter of when he took the huff over something.
There was a genuine attempt being made to stabilise the club, with a long term plan to get us back among the top teams. Alright there may have been a few mistakes, but it could only be Keegan who could completely blow the club apart in the manner he has. Remember he almost bankrupted NUFC in the 90's, then went off, leaving the following managers with no money AND no reserve team, since he dispanded it.
I hope we get some new owners with the club at heart and significant funds, but for now I feel we've wasted a great opportunity.
LEE YOU SAY THAT THERE WAS NO DOUBT HE WANTED SENIOR STARS WITH QUALITY, BUT HOW DO YOU BACK THIS STATEMENT UP, I CAN NEVER RECALL KEV MENTIONING ANYONE PLAYER HE WOULD LIKE TO SIGN, YES HE TALKED ABOUT THIERRY HENRY BUT NOT IN THE CONTEXT THAT HE WANTED TO SIGN HIM.
THE FACT IS KEV WAS WAS NEVER GONNA BE ALLOWED TO BRING HIS OWN PLAYERS IN.
ON THE SO CALLED ASHLEY WANTING TO SELL, I HONESTLY DONT BELIEVE HE WANTS OUT, HE HAS SET SUCH A HIGH PRICE TAG ON THE CLUB WHICH HE KNOWS HE HAS'NT A CAT IN HELLS CHANCE OF GETTING, I THINK HE'S HOPING JOE GETS SOME POSITIVE RESULTS, SO THAT THIS BUYS HIM SOMETIME AND THE STORM WILL BLOW OVER AND BE FORGOTTEN, THEN HIM RELEASING ANOTHER STATEMENT, HE IS GONNA GIVE IT ANOTHER GO.
I DO LIKE JOE KINNEAR, I DID WHEN HE WAS AT WIMBLEDON AND I WILL BE BACKING 101% AND I HAVE A FUNNY FEELING HE WILL BE HERE WELL INTO 2009.
ON MARK VIDUKA IT'S TIME TO GET HIM OFF THE BOOKS, HE CANNOT OFFER ANYTHING TO THE CAUSE, WE COULD BE BRINGING IN A LOAN PLAYER FOR A FRACTION OF HIS WAGES WHO CAN HELP US NOW WERE WE NEED IT, ON THE PITCH, HE HAS TO GO NOW.
AND WISE NEEDS TO FOLLOW JIMENEZ.
getting onto something else lee....dont you think if Viduka is out for at least 6 months....Then @60 grand a week,we should just come to a agreement on his contract and let him go?...what do you think?
If the talk of Beckham, Henry and Lampard was true then the so called 'dream team' you speak of, would have been full of high cost, highly paid, past their best footballers.
We have had too many of those in the past. The players brought in do seem good, we definitely should have got a replacement for Milner though.
Isn't it Dereck 'invisible man' Lambiass who is supposed to be running the club?
You can question Ashley on his motives and not putting enough money into the club, but he never claimed to be running it.
Funny how it all went downhill when Mort was replaced by the Manager of Spanish City.
All those silences when the supporters (and press) needed information. Wasn't it Lambias' job to make statements to show that it was all under control?
Yet he did manage to engage in a blazing row with Keegan on the day that Keegan walked out.
I actually though Ashley was breath of fresh air as an English Premiership Club owner, but he was never in it for the long term and he hired part-time misfits, since quality football management would have asked too many questions.
If he'd pumped £20-30 million into the team to get the excitement going, he may got an extra £50-60 million on the value now.
My mates uncle work as one of Hull's first team coaches and apparently Frank Lampard was ready to sign for £190,000 a week, then Ashley put the block on it. This is from a reliable source as well. I promise.
I'm surprised you put that enigmatic statement in Lee, about KK's supposed wish list. Especially as it's only ever appeared in Ashley's PR statement, no doubt written by someone cleverer than himself. Keegan's had some lousy press after leaving some jobs for very good reasons but nobody's asked his side of it. In some respects I doubt that his gentlemanly demeanour would have him dignify the accusations with a statement. He's still my main man.
I agree with Dave Robson, viduka is a waste of space. he never plays, when he does, and gets tackled you think, thats him out for a few months!
Hes 33 today, if hes out for 6 months? he'll be pushing 34 by the time he gets back. He'll have even less pace and is just eating up wages that someone like that fella at birmingham, Jerome could take.
I reckon ashley is feeding Joe rubbish to give to the media, 6 or 8 games in charge then 10. The amount of so called investors ready to buy us out changes daily aswell. deadlines for bids...no deadlines for bids.
I dont know if an african consortium is the best deal for us. We dont like being run from london, africa is even further. They may get enough cash to buy us but will they have enough come transfer window time?
DAVE ROBSON......i couldnt agree more.....its starting to look like MA doesnt want to sell,its just another smokescreen.i also have warmed to kinnear,but he aint the answer. good to see the back of jimenez though.....to be honest now,i couldnt give a toss who owns nufc,i just wanna see stability and a few positive results (and eventually signings),we cant automatically assume that whoever takes over (if anyone) that they/he wil be any better than ash...its gonna be a long hard road to get where we wanna be,especially if fifa and blatter/platini get their way and change ownership rules in the prem.........TOON 4 LIFE.
Thank god it's not just me!! Why do the media potray every single geordie as wanting KK to return [again]? I for one don't want him back at the club, unless he's come to watch a match as a spectator. Does the media go out and question 100 people and then only print comments / show footage of those newcastle fans wanting KK to return? Sometimes I think we fans are our own worst enemy. We've got to give people a chance - in the grand scheme of things [i.e honours won] we are not a big club. Yes, we used to be everyone's favourite second team, but that doesn't mean we're up there with the top four of Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea. Whoever comes in next we have to give them 100% backing, but to be honest if it's KK then we will be an even bigger laughing stock than we already are. And just to balance things out, no-one knows what went on between the parties involved, so yes, it appears KK walked because of the 'involvement' of Wise / Jimenez, and yes, it would appear he was treated badly, but we don't [and probably never will] know the truth of what actually went on behind the scenes. [because these 'sources close to the club' or 'inside source' always have their own agenda when leaking information]. Let's just get on, support the team [as long as they give 100%], support JK and get some pride back!
Fabiana52 YOUR WRONG TO SAY THAT HE NEARLY BANKRUPT THE CLUB LEAVING NO MONEY FOR OTHER MANAGERS, I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THE SIGNINGS KEVIN MADE AND HOW MUCH THEY WERE SOLD ON FOR WHEN THEY LEFT, THEY DID NOT LOSE OUT ON VERY MANY AT ALL, AS FOR LEAVING NO MONEY FOR OTHER MANAGERS THATS WHY THEY WERE IN DIRE STRAITS FINANCIALLY WHEN ASHLEY TOOK OVER, DUE TO THE MONEY OTHER MANAGERS SPENT AND WASTED AFTER KEV & WHEN THEY WAS SOLD MADE HUGE LOSSES.
THE ONLY THING HE MADE A BIG BOOB ON WAS THE RESERVE SIDE BEEN, DISPANDED.
I DONT NOW WHY YOUR HAVING A POP AT KEV BUT THE FELLA HAS ONLY BEEN FANTASTIC FOR THIS CLUB.
IF YOUR A MANAGER, YOU SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE TO MANAGE, OR WHAT IS THE POINT IF YOU BEEN UNDERMINED
Cant newcastle just terminater vidukas contract. he's past it and constantly injured
Note to Joel Teague: I think Sir Bobby is against the DOF structure as it is at NUFC now. Sir Bobby had a Director of Football during his time at NUFC (Gordon Milne), but he probably had no input into first team affairs.
Spot on Karl - talking plenty of sense! There's always two sides to every story, and in this instance, I think both were wrong!
The only Keegan signing sold for a profit was Les Ferdinand. He was only sold to try and balance the books - and then on the day that Alan Shearer was crippled. Why do you think we then had to bring in the likes of Rush/Barnes/Pearce etc?
We need to wake up and smell the coffee. Move on - Kevin Keegan is in the past.
It would be best for him to be remembered with a rosy glow from his playing days, and the 'Entertainers' he didn't quite succeed with.
In my eyes this episode has just reminded everyone of his character failure, and tendency to throw a tantrum when he doesn't get everything his own way. A lovely man, and I'll never forget the football we played in the early 90's, but he's fatally flawed. LET IT GO!
Jiminez wasn't the real problem, it was Wise and Lambias that we want out and quite sure that's what Keegan wanted too.
This is an extract from a report that was printed in the Sun in January 2008. Unusually for the Sun, it was quite visionary:
"Tony Jimenez is being hailed as Newcastle United's saviour after he influenced Kevin Keegan's shock return to Tyneside this week......Between him, Ashley and Chairman Chris Mort, they targeted Keegan. They heard Keegan still had the passion for the cause and when they met on Wednesday they were not disappointed....Jimenez will be playing a significant part in player recruitment...Whoever Keegan targets it is the board's aim to give him what he wants. If they did not, there would be no point in Keegan being there".
Says it all really.
Also, I've just listened to the Joe Kinnear rant for the first time. I seem to recall hearing a Journalist with a southern twang assuring Joe that everything that was said in that press conference would not be repeated outside of those four walls. Oh, my sides!
A lot of fans have got to realise that Keegan is not the one and only person to manage this club. When he's doing well he's great, but when things start to go wrong he's too volatile and prone hissy fits. He's always liable to bugger off when things take a down turn. I know his hands were tied but he was wrong to just leave us in the lurch. Why didn't he tough it out a bit longer. We've got to move on, it is possible for someone else to come in and do well also. Just look at Bobby Robson - how i wished we could have someone like him again!!
its not as if they filled all the positions we needed is it ?
im sure this whole mess wouldnt be as bad had they offered keegan players for the positions he wanted more depth for .
you cant just run around the world and bring in players cos you like the look of them , or cos they were cheap .
they have to fit into the squad .
every fan and keegan himself said all summer we needed a left back and some creativity in the centre of the park , had wise and jiminez brought these positions in (even if they had been behind keegans back) then i think you will find they wouldnt have had half as bad a ride since keegan left, as they have done .
fact is they didnt and sent us into a season with a weak squad , there is no way you could say they have done a decent job cos of this .
Come on Fabiana52 where do you get your stats from the Beano or the News of the World?
Simon Bird perhaps?
Surely it's obvious Keegan made a big profit on Andy Cole? (over £4M profit and Kieth Gillespie) Not to mention Ruel Fox.
And the reason we didn't sell on players for higher fees is because he insisted on keeping his best players. We were not a selling club under Keegan.
IF I REMEMBER WE DID NOT DO TOO BAD ON THE ANDY COLE DEAL, HOW MANY DID WE LOSE ON IN KEV'S DAY, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY HOW MANY WERE GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY,I.E ROB LEE, ANDY COLE, ALBERT, GINOLA, SELLARS, SHEARER, GILLESPIE, BEARDSLEY, FERDINAND, BERESFORD, AND THERE WERE MORE WHERE THEY WERE SOLD ON FOR NO LESS THAN THEY WERE BOUGHT FOR.
I DO THINK IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON, IF KEV DID COME BACK, I FOR ONE WOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM OR WORRY ABOUT IT, BUT DO THINK MAYBE STEVE BRUCE IS POSSIBLY THE TYPE OF MANAGER WE COULD DO WORSE THAN GET HOLD OF.
HE HAS MADE MISTAKES LIKE ANY NEW MANAGER LEARNING THEIR TRADE DOES, BUT OVER THE LAST FEW SEASONS, HE HAS BROUGHT SOME EXELLENT TALENT TO HIS CLUB, I.E PALACIOS, ZAKI, FIGUERO, VALENCIA, SO DOES SEEM TO HAVE AN EYE FOR A PLAYER.
ALL SAID IF JOE GETS THE RESULTS WE DESPERATLEY NEED HE HAS TO BE LEFT TO GET ON WITH IT, SO THERE IS SOME STABILITY IF WE ARE TO PULL AWAY TO SAFETY.
So Fabiana52, we didnt make a profit on Andy Cole eh? 1.7m From Bristol City?? What a short memory... How about signings like: John Beresford 650k, Barry Venison 250k, Robert Lee 700k, Scott Sellars 700k, Andy Cole 1.7m, Peter Beardsley 1.5m, Ruel Fox 2.25m, Darren Peacock 2.7m, Marc Hottiger 600k, Philippe Albert 2.65m, Keith Gillespie Man Utd pounds 1m (exchange deal with Cole) Warren Barton 4m, Les Ferdinand 6m, David Ginola 2.5m, Shaka Hislop 1.5m, Darren Huckerby 500k, Faustino Asprilla 6.7m, David Batty 3.75m and of course the legend Alan Shearer a bargin15m. I think we'd all settle for signings like that now, bearing in mind they all cost about the same as Luque on this own!!! Its you who needs to smell the coffee sunshine. KK was simply prolific in the transfer market. No one has bought better before or since. SIMPLE AS THAT. Lets hope he comes back and he can refresh your somewhat faulty memory.
Fabiana - it was actually Dalglish who sold Ferdinand and brought in messrs Barnes, Rush and Pearce. Keegan had a pretty decent record of picking up players from the lower leagues and selling them on at a profit, examples being Huckerby and Guppy.
Fabiana - it was actually Dalglish who sold Ferdinand and brought in messrs Barnes, Rush and Pearce. Keegan had a pretty decent record of picking up players from the lower leagues and selling them on at a profit, examples being Huckerby and Guppy. He also bought and then sold Ruel Fox for a 2 million plus profit, not to mention Andy Cole...
either king kev or a younger up and coming manager roberto martinez...swansea city manager, worked wonders for them in his few years there! just a thought!
Fabiana,
Keep digging that hole regarding criticising keegan’s transfer policy, it is clear to all you know nothing of note regarding NUFC. As previously mentioned his record in his first managerial stint was not only good on re-sale value, but perhaps better judged by the quality players he left us with. Players like, Shearer, Lee, Ferdinand, Beresford, Batty etc all had their heart in the club. Of course there were other great players who came and went along the way Peter B (legend), Cole, Venison, Sellers, Bracewell we could go on. None of us know who the future manager will be, but I for one would not be disappointed to see Keegan back at the helm. He is and will always be a legend to those of us who remember the dark days.
Whoa, steady on man. My point was that Kev signed lots of players, and spent much more cash than we actually had. Yes he made a profit on Cole, and spent it on Ferdinand, who Dalglish then had to sell after Kev jumped ship (for the record, I didn't say that Keegan sold Sir Les). The prices he paid back in the 90's (after promotion to the Premiere League)were big, big prices in those days(plus big, big wages). Because of that we had to live on free-transfers and ageing 'superstars' for a good while after he'd gone . Look, I will never the fantastic football of the 90's under Kev, but he just keeps leaving the club in a mess.
Dark days? God do I remember dark days, from the 70's onwards. I also remember the heavy feeling of failure after attending every Wembley appearance since '74.
Here's looking towards the light - from whichever continent it may come. A further point for the record - Peter Beardsley is my absolute hero, and a true Geordie legend. How I wish he could somehow come in to help us at the moment.